Modernizing Corporate Bank Portals to Meet Client Needs

Brett Turner:
Welcome to Fintech Corner. Great to have you on the podcast.

Tom Durkin:
Brett, it’s awesome to be here. I’m looking forward to a great show here in Nashville. 

Brett Turner:

This is—I mean, this place is buzzing.

Tom Durkin:
It is. Look across the floor—there’s a lot of energy, a good vibe here today. 

Brett Turner:

Seems like a couple of years ago, when COVID, or a few years ago, when COVID hit, it just took a little while to recover. But now it’s like full swing.

Tom Durkin:
It is. Back in a blaze of glory here. We didn’t know what would happen post-COVID, but I think the benefits of collaboration, being together—some of the things we hit on earlier today—those things are really important for corporate practitioners. So glad to be here.

Brett Turner:
Well, we’ve been working together for a while. So, Tom, if you could just introduce yourself, talk about your background, and we can kind of jump into some of the exciting things we’ve been doing. And obviously, the whole world of innovation would be pretty cool to touch on.

Tom Durkin:
Sure. I’m Tom Durkin, and I’m responsible for our CashPro global platform. That’s across our API space, our mobile app, our online and traditional connectivity space that represents about 40,000 customers, moving about $32 trillion annually, moving working capital dollars, foreign exchange, trade, supply chain. So there’s a lot there.

We brand CashPro for those clients—it’s in their office every day, whether it’s any of those different channels that they’re using to access. And I’m lucky enough to spend time with a lot of partners like yourself in terms of the technology transformation. I also spend time with our corporate customers through a series of our advisory boards. It’s been a great journey at Bank of America. Prior to that, I was at ABN AMRO as part of their transaction group and have worked in a variety of industry-related roles. So, just excited to be here.

Brett Turner:
Awesome. A little bit of volume there.

Tom Durkin:
Yes, it is. We talk about that, and an important topic relative to the landscape today, which is really the volume of payments. Payments is also front and center in terms of the innovation landscape, as you were saying earlier. Significant opportunity, but learnings every day. That’s for sure.

Brett Turner:
Awesome, and I’m Brett Turner, founder and CEO of Trovata. I remember when we got our start in the very early days of Trovata, We were starting to build out the user interface, but the whole vision of Trovata was data and APIs. So a lot of that was just even describing and talking about what an API was to a lot of folks in banking.

Tom Durkin:

An amazing time in terms of transformation. The pace of innovation wasn’t at the same speed as it is today.

And I think the ability to understand where the market was going was a critical observation. There was clearly regulatory driving factors, like we had with PSD2 and open banking going back to that timeframe. But I think at that point, we also weren’t as sure—like, how fast was the industry going to move? How quickly were customers going to be ready in terms of an opportunity to take advantage of technology like this, which, you didn’t want it to be the next hype or buzz.

So watching the speed of transformation was pretty critical for us. But it’s great to think back on where we started and where we’re at now. 

Brett Turner:

But I can honestly say, you know, a lot of people are talking about APIs, but no, I mean, you guys were really one, if not the first global bank in the world to release a public-facing API that started with the balances API, then the payments API. But maybe a little bit about that journey—how did you even get the backing of the bank to do that? And then what was sort of the buzz at the time or the wind at your back to do it?

Tom Durkin:
Any investment at a bank of our size is a significant technology investment. We often talk about how our Global Payments Solutions group, that I’m part of in terms of managing CashPro, is a technology business inside the bank because of the nature of what our customers are looking for from us. At the time, it was setting a pace of change and an understanding of where the business value was going to come from? Where is the business value going to come from with improving cash forecasting? Where’s the business value going to come from in terms of payment status, in addition to what kind of payments can be originated?

So there was a lot of education, but thankfully, through our team’s hard work and a number of people across our team, we spent a lot of time with our CashPro advisory board clients, working with them on guidance on when is this going to fit in? and how critical is this in addition to other investments? At that particular point, the mobile app was really starting to grow for us. That exploded during the pandemic with additional growth opportunities and continues. So I think it was a series of education, but backed up by client-practitioner perspective, and figuring out how we would move from what I would say was a banking portal to a banking platform. 

And, those kinds of conversations were critical in terms of understanding architecturally, how do you do that? How do you provide the same amount of services relative to what has been historically built with coming to a website or pushed to a mobile app in that perspective? But it did, and it continues, right? The good thing today is how much more common APIs are relative to in the landscape where more consumers are using them in their own life, and they don’t even know it half the time. Yeah, and that factors into the educational components and certainly the dialogue for shaping where the industry could go based upon who Bank of America is, our clients, and so forth.

Brett Turner:
Were there plenty of customers too that you felt like there was some real demand here, or some big enough customers, then, not knowing exactly, are they going to connect, or what the journey is going to be like, or what the challenges are going to be, even the benefits to sort of get?

Tom Durkin:
That’s true. We did spend a lot of time thinking about the business case side of it for the journey. Like, how does this imply—like, is it a revenue retention plan? Meaning, are our customers more likely to stay versus RFPing their business if we support them on the technology transformation? And since we deal with customers from global multinational to SMEs across our business banking group, right, there’s a large degree of technology transformation going on.

So, I think that’s a unique opportunity, where clients, wherever they’re at on the spectrum, the opportunity is there. You’ve just got to meet them at the right point. That’s something that certainly we like to look at from a responsible growth standpoint for helping clients. So it’s not about pushing a product per se as much as it is helping the client grow.

Brett Turner:
If you look at now kind of where things are headed, and maybe APIs were sort of that first step, how much of the UI is going to be shaping the future? How much of that ultimately gets automated? Does the user interface sort of start to get more obfuscated as part of that whole process? Of course now, fast forward, we’ve got AI coming like a freight train. If you look at some of those things, when you look at how you’re making, I mean, CashPro has got a lot of acclaim from a lot of customers using it. Obviously, it’s a fantastic portal. How, in some ways, is even this question of like, how do the APIs now sort of headless or faceless in a little ways—how does that kind of fit in as a different way to provide value?

Tom Durkin:
And I think that’s an important question for any bank to understand the evolution, because I think even if you walk around this floor here today, right? Where the practitioners are thinking about their banks for doing payment initiation in the UI only, or they’re pulling reports, right? In terms of the change that’s there. And for us, I think really it hit our stride where the usage of whether it’s the mobile app or the online user experience can be done for other things. Like, that’s why you see us go hard on pushing our service-first message, where our clients in chat, CashPro Chat.

So the opportunity of those things—that’s replacing what was done potentially and leveraging the technology, just like our consumer teams have done. So that’s new where I think in the last two years, whereas you look at, it’s not just about payment and initiation, because our message to clients would be, you can use the API, whatever you want to use—how are you going to connect with us? You can bring that in. But as you look to expand the value add in other areas for the banking platform, that’s where we see more visibility needed in service, administration, the CashPro Chat function, fulfillment, onboarding, all those things can still tie in a variety of ways as the payment space matures now in API. 

So I think to be a competitive player in the space, you really have to be thinking about a platform option. So that’s how we view it as kind of like a complement. If you want to move your payments there, you want to collect your data over an API, we’ll support you. And if you need to use the servicing aspects and visibility, we’re there to meet you. 

Brett Turner:

If you think of now, that starts to take hold, is it like you mentioned too, the servicing and support and I mean, it’s really a, this is a full fledged product. I think a lot of people think of, hey, it’s just a connection or it’s just an alternative pipe. And like, you know more than anybody like. Yeah, this goes well beyond that. mean, even to how culturally, how that kind of fits in with the sales team, understanding that there’s another product to sell. Like how is that journey?

Tom Durkin:
That’s a great question, actually. No, just thinking about the perspective of as much as I tend to talk more about our time with practitioners and their time educating, we also had a lot of internal dialogue. The sales teams were used to selling that perspective. And you’re talking about sales teams that have evolved from selling lockbox and check processing, depository solutions, the banking centers, to now you’re going to have an API connection that’s going to drive that. That requires a lot of different training, education.

I think a recognition to our marketing, our comms team, and our product teams. Spending as much time on educational business value use cases demystifies some of the technology around that, because that’s what’s going to sell and, I think, attract additional business when we’re hitting on that in a space that continues to grow in that regard. But we did a lot of internal training sessions to say, “Is it one or the other?” And I’m like, “No, you can use both.” And that’s still a common question from clients and how to bring it forward. So like, look, you don’t have to choose one. We will meet you wherever you are on the technology stack and continue to look for ways in which, you know, what works best for you by leveraging, whether it’s the service technology, the API connection. Like, I think those are things that practitioners are going to expect from us as banks.

Brett Turner:
Well, and you guys have been ahead of the curve. nd you guys were really the first global bank to release these APIs. And I think in a lot of ways, initially, people didn’t… I think they were aware that they were coming and knew that they were coming, but a lot of people didn’t really know what to do with them. So if you think of now, fast forward, how do you—have you seen sort of the traction of use, or is it still evolving? 

You look at a treasury conference here like this, there’s still a lot of legacy solutions that people are on. I know that evolution takes time. But what have you seen just in the last five, six years? You know, just adoption, what you guys have continued to evolve? 

Tom Durkin:

That’s the right question that any bank should be looking at. What’s the pace of adoption going to be? Because you are timing significant investments. You’re also going through aspects of product simplification, right? In terms of moving away from legacy products that don’t make as much sense in the digital ecosystem that we are in today. So it is finding the right balance and at the right pace. What I would say is we’ve seen more growth, and I think we’ll have some additional conversation. But even if you look over the last year, the pace is over like 50 percent in terms of growth. So started small, yes, compared to some of the numbers I mentioned with total clients. But the questions that are evolving more—and this is kind of what I would watch—are the questions our sales teams getting about discovery or fundamental education, or are they more moving to intermediate and advanced classes? Like, “Look, I got this challenge, how do I migrate?”

So I watch that kind of dialogue that our product team does and how they, you know, integrate with the sales team. So it is an evolution of measuring, but really, over the last one to two years, it has been significant growth opportunity. I also would say that more clients are looking to leverage their partners. I think that’s critical.

Brett Turner:
Is it almost kind of exponential in terms of like, you know, it starts off a little slow, but have you seen even in the last year or two, like really start to change a little bit? Do you think we’re at a tipping point?

Tom Durkin:
Well, I do think clients have to be talking about it with their banks, and with technology providers because… the question about if you’re moving or picking a new bank—say you’re picking it for the US, you’re picking it for Europe—you should be answering the questions relative to how does it fit into your treasury landscape? I think that’s the timing question that is more prevalent today with the corporate customers. So you see it in the pre-sale part, to the dialogue during onboarding and implementation, and then post-production as well. So I think that will continue to grow in terms of questions. You know, it will be a challenge as I look across the floor here on the exhibit hall, right? There’s a lot of providers, there’s a lot of opportunity. So there’s more technology in this transformation space than there ever has been, looking back across the last five years. So now’s the time that you should be asking questions of your banks and of your partners.

Brett Turner:
Well, I know just being in startups for most of my career, and more enterprise startups, we’d always kind of look at just how things would evolve. And technology on the enterprise side is different than from consumer, you know, retail banking. And it would be interesting. Our proxy was always like, whatever is happening on the consumer side, five to seven years later, it’s going to eventually make its way to the enterprise.

How have you seen some of that? You look at just more real-time payments, you know, a lot of that that’s been happening. A lot of what Bank of America is doing on that front can be very advanced. How have you kind of watched that, or maybe even look at that, the evolution of that? How has that sort of influenced kind of what the journey’s been on the CashPro side? You know, just is a lot of that relevant? It’s kind of working on a different set of systems or… curious how all of that kind of makes its way…

Tom Durkin:
Well, I think when you think about—first off, I think at Bank of America, we have a huge advantage organizationally, how we’re structured. My boss, Mark Monaco, runs global payments services, so that’s payments across the company. And that’s been in place for over a year and a half in terms of bringing forward the structure. And part of that provides unique opportunities for us. That’s why I just go back to the point about leveraging technology. What our consumer bank is doing, the support, that digital landscape is coming full throttle into the commercial space. So that’s why you see us talking about things with Erica, which is the consumer tool for artificial intelligence and changing the servicing dynamic inside CashPro. That’s been up and running for over a year since we first launched that.

So not all banks will have that opportunity with the consumer book the size of ours, right? In terms of our number one capabilities and so forth in consumer. But that’s what corporate treasurers are expecting now. So I think that sets up a certain number of banks to really take advantage. And for us, it starts with our organizational structure, our focus on learning, sharing across the enterprise, and bringing that technology to the table. And then we’re starting to gain the benefits of that with CashPro.

Brett Turner:
When you look at what can you maybe share publicly about some things you’re excited about with some new things that’s going to be coming downstream related to APIs or part of the CashPro roadmap?

Tom Durkin:
In anything in terms of the things I get excited about are what I’m learning from our customers. Like, I feel really excited about the point of spending time and what we hear from our CashPro advisory boards. Once you bring that forward, and then how do we crystallize that? And we actually have a session with clients coming up Wednesday afternoon here at the tail end of the conference. And we’re going to talk about that. Meg Garand and Renee and their team, they’re going to walk through what were some of the things we’re doing.

So crystallizing those ideas in terms of how to bring the table. I would say the learnings that we now have from the growth in payments set us up for good opportunities in other areas of using the technology for interaction—whether it’s how we have additional user management with different users on the banking platform, how can you use APIs for different information flow, additional fraud prevention services. 

So there’s a whole other way to take the learnings from payments and bring that across the board. We’re also looking at opportunities for like improving our payment search status. Do we build an API to call into the search? That’s probably one of the fastest-growing new capabilities inside CashPro—to find search on a variety of transactions. How do you open that up, in addition to payment status that we do today? So the excitement is gauged on where the customers are, where they want us to go. That’s our brand—customers always first. Follow where they’re at. Ensure we’re doing the right things that really help take friction out of the process. And, you know, that can definitely be done with this type of API technology. And, you know, we’ll keep on that journey. So we’ll have to get together in 2025 to see what actually happened.

Brett Turner:
I remember we were talking about this the other day about how, like, as young people come out of college, enter the banking profession, and we were talking about this too—it’s like there’s stuff that’s native to young people. Just—it wasn’t native to you and I when we were…

Tom Durkin:
No, no, it’s different. And, you know, watching that with my kids play out relative to the speed of money moving to my son at college or my daughter, who’s in high school, and like, she’s never written a check. She’s received checks, but there’s no question she knows how to use her mobile app. Emily will be on the mobile app and deposit it in the account. So. the whole speed—they expect information. And I think that’s also transforming banking overall, where the expectations are going to be higher. Their expectations on user experience are way higher.

I think we were, like, “It’s commercial, it’ll be different, or it’ll take time.” Like you were saying with your five-to-seven-year example. There’s no time for those that are coming into the workforce, those that are leaving, their whole life has been digital. They’re not going to slow down anytime soon.

Brett Turner:
Do you feel like we’re kind of anywhere near a tipping point, or do you feel like these inflection points that are coming in terms of where things are at? Or even as we’re talking about young people or career development, are the things that they’re excited about in some ways—do you feel like they might be pushing the bank or pushing?

Tom Durkin:
Well, I think they push different generations and the aspect for how to move and to continue to innovate. That’s a good fundamental driver for innovation overall for what the youth and the youth banking expectations might be. So we’ll look to take advantage of that, whether it’s, you know, like analysts that we hire that are over there demoing at our booth now to how it’s going to continue to change. So it’s a—it’s a good inflection point. 

Brett Turner:

Exciting time? 

Tom Durkin:

Exciting time.

Brett Turner:

All right, good stuff. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Always great to catch up.

Tom Durkin:
Thank you. It is. It’s great to be together in person here. Thanks for the opportunity and enjoy the rest of the show.

Brett Turner:
Awesome. This is Tom Durkin. I’m Brett Turner.

Tom Durkin:
Thank you. 

Brett Turner:

Signing off.